July 27, 2011

Utoya - a not so innocent youth camp?

The Guardian was quick to pounce on a remark by Glenn Beck in which he wondered what the meaning of a "political youth camp" actually was in Utoya, Norway and might it be something like the Hitler-Youth.

The Guardian promptly skewed this into a headline saying:
Glenn Beck likens Norwegian dead to Hitler youth

So what was REALLY going on on Utoya Island?

It is dated last Thursday, 21st July ... the day before the massacre at Utoya.

The picture is of Norwegian Foreign Minister Gahre-Store on a visit to the AUF (Workers' Youth League) 'campers' at Utoya.  After being escorted around the camp by AUF leader Eskil Pedersen, the campers demand a boycott of Israel and that Norway recognize the Palestinian state.  

To which the minister reportedly replied, to cheers from the 'campers': The Palestinians must have their own state, the occupation must end, the wall must be demolished and it must happen now.

Whilst this doesn't change the fact that this was a monstrous slaughter of innocent kids, one has to ask who is this Pederson guy and to what lengths has his Workers Youth League gone to incite impressionable kids with such hatred of Israel fuelled by lies and propaganda about deprivation in Gaza? 

Here's a picture of Norwegian students in a mock Palestinian aid boat bearing the sign Opphev Blokkaden Gaza - Unlock the Gaza Blockade. 

Footnote:  Earlier this month Gaza opened its newest and grandest shopping mall. See the Gulf News report and picture gallery HERE

Videos debunking the Gaza deprivation libels can be viewed HERE.

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Blogger jonsiegs said...

one has to ask who is this Pederson guy and to what lengths has his Workers Youth League gone to incite impressionable kids with such hatred of Israel fuelled by lies and propaganda about deprivation in Gaza?

Can you ask that question without attaching blame to those who were murdered? Your headline seems like a justification of the slaughter. I think you didn't mean to imply such a disgusting premise, but many would easily infer that exact premise from your headline.

Regardless of what these people thought of Israel, Obama, Aliens or bread pudding - no justification of this massacre exists.

July 27, 2011  
Blogger Zalmi said...

jonsiegs: you are doing the same as the Guardian did to Beck. There was no such implication on his part or mine.

July 27, 2011  
Blogger Jeopardy News said...

I think they asked for it. Sympathizing and advocating the genocide of Israeli Jews is exactly the ideology of Hitler youth - little jackbooted thugs preaching pro-muslim/Jew-hating bile,

July 28, 2011  
Blogger Michelle Therese said...

World politics is not a game. It is a dangerous and deadly arena. These poor children were placed right smack in the center of the cross hairs by the irresponsible idiots that placed them in this indoctrination camp!

Leave kids alone!! Let them decide their own politics once they grow up to be free-thinking, mature adults. How many more kids are going to die because adults insist on "getting to them young"??

July 28, 2011  
Blogger Unknown said...

Well Said Michelle Therese you hit the nail on the head. But I do agree with the main points of the article.

July 29, 2011  
Blogger Odde said...

Time to stop thinking that anyone who disagree with Israel and it`s People are Nazis ... advocating the genocide of Israeli jews ... HUUH . Terrorism is unaceptabel - we learn that in Norway. No palestinian terror nor Israeli bombing of civilian are right (Not american or norwegian bombing of civilian either ... )There is NOTHING in the social democracy that stand for this. We don`t hate Jews OR Muslims OR coulored people ! The kids were having a good time with a lot of activities else than politics and the middleeast was just a TINY part of the camp ! STOP thinking that anything is about you and your problems and that everyone who questions anything of what you are doing are ENEMIES !

July 30, 2011  
Blogger Rudy said...

Hamas has summer camps for kids as little as 10 yrs old. They do have lots of fun training how to properly murder Jews and Jewish kids. It is true they have a great fun Summer filled with all kind of activities - such as how to become the best suicide bomber or how to cut throats to infidels.

July 30, 2011  
Blogger uncle harvey said...

There are two issues at play here . First and foremost is an unequivocal condemnation of this hideous act of carnage carried out by a deranged sociopath . This absolute should not prevent a quite separate examination of the motives and means by which young impressionable people are indoctrinated into acceptance of one side of a complex struggle . For these teenagers , there is no balance and no context for Israels actions . There is no historical imput which makes reference to the three existential wars , two of which were fought before israels occupation of the west bank and gaza and before any settlements . Are these children allowed to formulate the question why the Palestinians failed to declare statehood when they were in possession of these lands or at least to demand it from Jordan who had annexed it in 1948 .
The security fence becomes an apartheid wall when it is in fact a last ditch attempt by israel to prevent brain washed Palestinians from immolating themselves and murdering Israeli citizens in cafes , buses etc.
Are these children taught about the Palestinian charter one such article which reads " israel exists and will continue to exist until Islam obliterates it .
The fact is that these children are being overtly indoctrinated . They are being fed a one sided diatribe of unrelenting hatred against the Jewish state . In many instances this cannot fail to inculcate antisemitic views .
Our abhorrence and condemnation of this vile act of a madman must not stifle criticism of an insidious programme of indoctrination which provides a platform of hate for another people .

July 31, 2011  
OpenID lappie said...

Your anti-muslim propaganda is just the sort of rubbish that is in Breivik's "manifesto" Zalmi. You are part of the problem, and share responsibility for helping drive him to this tragic act. You should be ashamed.
Norway has free speech and they have a right to protest in support of Palestinian rights. Back to 1967 borders and share the land is the fair and legal solution. If Israel spent half of its military budget on compensating Palestinians for the land they lost in the creation of Israel, they would give up the right of return. Result - peace at no extra cost.

July 31, 2011  
Blogger Zalmi said...

1) I am not anti-Muslim or anti- any faith group. I am anti –terror and anti those who incite murder, butchery and the subjugation of women in the name of their religion. That makes me emphatically anti-islamist
2) If Norway has free speech, how are its liberal university students being incited against Israel, the only democracy in the middle east and the only place where Arab women have the vote, equal rights to men and are permitted to drive a car? It can only be pure indoctrination and through the propagation of lies on campus.
3) Would you enter into a building contract with a contractor who refused to accept you were the owner of the house? How is Israel supposed to enter into life-or-death contracts with a party that consistently refuses to accept its existence as a Jewish state? Israel evicted 8,000 of its citizens from their homes in order to give up Gaza. Can you cite me one single thing Israel has had in return for that, other than 6,000 rocket attacks?

July 31, 2011  
Blogger uncle harvey said...

It is at least gratifying to note that you refer to a return to 67 borders . Thats a start . Most of your tendency refer to a return to Russia or Poland , Europe etc .
I genuinely admire your passion for the Palestinian cause . A humanitarian cause which compels you to defend their corner . I would be interested to know whether you were so minded to write on behalf of the victims of Palestinian terror and express your abhorrence of the murder and mayhem committed against israels civilian population .
If as I suspect you didn't , you fall neatly into the classification of my previous comment which questions indoctrination and the blind adherence to one side of a complex problem .
I would suggest that it is you sir who relects a malign bias .

August 01, 2011  
Blogger Christer Gulbrandsen said...

I'm afraid you have not gotten your facts straight about this youth camp, Zalmi.

Most of those attending were in the ages of 15-25. In Norway, you are free to - and often encouraged to - join any political, social or religious organization without your parents' consent from the age of 15.

Furthermore, the picture of the boat is from another youth party's camp a few years back, and was an illustration photo taken for the media.

In addition, all Norwegian youth parties have these kinds of camps. They feature discussions and lectures, and help to foster critical attitudes among young people. I have spoken at several different organizations' events like this, and always leave encouraged that there is little in the way of indoctrination, and much in the way of critical thinking going on.

Lastly, using the epithet of "Hitler youth" is inexcusable. Of course, you do not explicitly say that Breivik's actions were excusable, but you say that these young people were little better than the nazis. What do you think that implies? If you are now about to say that you didn't use those words, it was Glenn Beck, please re-read how you describe the reactions to Beck's comments. You clearly take his side.

August 01, 2011  
Blogger Robert said...

1) Zalmi shares no more responsibility for Breivik's actions than you share responsibility for Hamas' or PLO's terror(or any extreme left terrorism for that matter, like your European home grown anarchists, anti-globalists etc.)
2) Nobody disputes Norway's rights to free speech. However, this kind of free speech that crosses into unbalanced and hate-filled indoctrination of the youth is anti-Israel propaganda, or to use your language, just the sort of rubbish that can be found in Hamas manisfesto.
3) 1967 "borders" are no borders, they have not been recognized as such by anyone, lest of all by the Arabs. These are mrely the armistice lines where the fighting stopped in 1949. The majority of Israelis are all for sharing the land in principle, but the final borders have to be negotiated and will not be 1949 armistice lines.
4)Israel will not be 'compensating" palestinians for the land lost in the creation of Israel, because compensation implies liability. israel is neither liable nor responsible for the consequences of 1948 war which was started by the Arab side with the express goal of politicide and genocide. There will be no compensation because Palestinian people (although they were not exactly referred to themselves as such in 1948) didn't lose any land because they didn't have any sovereign title to it. There was no nation-state called Palestine in 1948, there was a british governed territory, a former province of the Ottoman empire that the League of nations, a precursor to the UN, allocated to the re-establishment of a jewish national home. Most of the land was state-owned (aka public) and the Jews were as much "palestinians" as the Arabs were in 1948. If the Jews stopped referring to themselves as Palestinians, having assumed a new name (Israelis), this doesn't make the Arabs the only ones with legal claims to the land.
The only compensation that may ever be duscussed within the framework of final settlement is compensation for private land/property provided it is properly documented and the owners can prove they were evicted rather than left on their own accord. Even that would be largely without the precedent. A lot of people including refugees, displaced people or migrants lost land on conflicts, WWII, the balkans, Cyprus etc- few we ever compensated, but nearly all were resettled in the new countries. This is what the Arabs should do to their palestinians brethren. If israel is requested to exceptionally compensate for the loss of Arab private property in 1948, it would expect a similar compensation for the loss of Jewish property when Jews were expelled or forced out of the Arab countries were they lived for millenia, with the property values at least 10 times greater than the property of palestinian Arabs. Note that the Arabs who stayed put and became Israeli citizens didn't lose any land and in fact the private land ownership by the Arabs in israel is greater that their proportion within total israeli population.
6) There is no need to 'compensate' in order to get the arabs to abandon the right of return. They don't have any right of return, and in case they have expressed no interest in abandoning the bogus right of return, compensation or no compensation. Also, it is disingenuous to demand a sovereign state and then claim the right of retun to ANOTHER sovereign state. Not very conducive to peace and good faith. Speaks volume of palestinian true intention

August 01, 2011  
Blogger Zalmi said...

To Christer - I may stand corrected re the second photo and I do stand by Glenn Beck's right to wonder whether the camp was run on similar lines to the Hitleryouth. But neither he nor I ever referred to the kids even obliquely as Nazis. That word appears nowhere in my blog entry nor in Glenn's remarks. Significantly it was only the Guardian which used that word.

August 01, 2011  
Blogger AViewofmyown said...

Odde: You claim Norwegians don't hate anybody yet that is a lie. My kids go to a camp in the USA and they do not talk politics. It's about having fun. There is so much hate in Norway that the "camp" was all about hating Israel. The ignorance of the facts is so blatant it has to be willful. Would I want for kids to be killed as these were? No. But their minds were killed a long time ago by the haters and liars. All Brevik really did was kill their physical being. And Beck is spot on!

August 01, 2011  
Blogger Mear said...

You make a lot of claims about the youth camps, but seem completely uninterested in learning anything about them. Have you ever attended such a camp? Talk to people who did attend?

The youth at the camp are not randomly selected norwegian youth brought to the camp to be indoctrinated into hating Israel.
They have chosen for themselves to join a youth camp belonging to a political party whose political statements they agree to. They are not told what to believe, they are there for discussion and information, and yes, plenty of the youth and adults there WILL know about the details of the issue.

What I find disturbing about this discussion is the fact that you seem to think it's impossible to discuss the issue and critizise Israel's actions without also hating Israel. There is no hate involved here, certainly not as far as the youth camp is concerned.

Perhaps you should take a moment to consider the fact that only people with very little knowledge of the camps are likening it to Hitler's camps and claiming they are about indoctrination. Even the right-wing political parties in Norway that support the state of Israel's every action would find it ridicculous to think that the camps are about indoctrination and hate.

You might also consider the fact that at 15, they are only two years away from being allowed to vote, and it's about time they started learning about politics and forming an opinion. Which they are very free to do at such a camp.

August 02, 2011  
Blogger Joachim said...

Let me just say how impressed I am with you, Mear, for being able to keep your cool in answering these outrageous posts. The only hope for the future is with the moderate, balanced and informed, not with the extremists on either side of the political spectrum, regardless of whether they carry bombs or cork-screw hair-do's.

August 05, 2011  
Blogger Tore Sinding Bekkedal said...

I was on that island, which was formally dedicated to AUF by the "father of the nation", the Holocaust survivor Einar Gerhardsen. I sang yiddish songs around the bonfire the night before the shooting. In gerneral I have a great love of Jewish culture which I shared with friends on the island.

My criticism of Israel - mind you, I'm not in favour of the boycott, but that's completely irrelevant - stems from my belief that Israel is hurting itself by implementing an unsustainably inhumane policy built up by paranoia and fear by parties eager to build power on prejudice, and that a more harmonious set of policies which is built up on coexistance rather than racism, will in the long term benefit everyone - Israel included.

Israel is currently implementing a policy of collective punisment of an entire people. This is not acceptable, no matter how you look at it. The only way one can consider it to be acceptable is by the very same thought mechanisms that made concentration camps possible: The reduction the value of one race of humans into subuhumans. And the world will not stand for it for very long.

Eskil Pedersen is the leader our organization and has been elected democratically to work for implementation of our policies and opinions, which are also formed by strict democratic procedure. Lobbying the Labour government is part of this.

How can you equate criticism of Israel's policies with anti-semitism? By doing so you're using the Holocaust as political point-scoring and thus cheapening it.

August 05, 2011  

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